http://www.theoblogian.org/Quality theological discussion.60 http://ww.theoblogian.org/Post.aspx?s=rc&idpPost=26#Comment_59<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">Based upon such Scriptures as Matt. 16:17 the words of Jesus in Matt. 11:25 and Paul in Rom. 16:25-26 and 1 Cor. 2:7 and 10 God has established a manner in which some of His Truth is <I>hidden</I> in His Word.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </SPAN>This aspect of His dealing with mankind is not relative to one’s “scholarship”, it is relative to one’s ongoing relationship with their Redeemer, gaining their understanding from the Holy Spirit (John 16:13). </P> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">Scholarship becomes a part of this learning with the broadening of one’s scope of study to include the whole Bible, plus a knowledge of key words in the original language, and sometimes some extra-biblical bits of information.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </SPAN>But even in this, it is God who reveals His deeper truths, and that only to those who seek it in His way.</P> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">Part of the blessing of leading someone into the experience of salvation is to watch the expressions of wonder and joy that blossom in that one when they “see” the truth, the meanings of God’s Word.</P> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">Another aspect of the Holy Spirit’s revelation of God’s truth in His Word is in the ongoing revelations in time.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </SPAN>The older you get, along with the continuing absorption of His Word, the more you learn “new” truths (that have been there all the time.) in the Word.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </SPAN>I believe God has established more than enough of His ways, yes and even of Himself in His Word, to meet our increasing learning from that Word.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </SPAN>As His wisdom is really as much a part of Himself as love is, so the more we pursue Him, the more He reveals to us of His nature, as well as His way for us to live.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </SPAN>That is my experience.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </SPAN>At 81 years, I am yet learning these things.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </SPAN>That is an exciting aspect in knowing and serving Him. Yet I am impressed by an old saying - “I am too soon old and too late smart”</P> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">The more we realize the pattern of God’s revelations of Himself (in a progressive manner) through the Bible, the more we can understand His working in our own lives.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </SPAN>The most difficult aspects of our lives – major losses, death, extended illness, major financial reverses, etc. – these present the greatest trials, the hardest to accept as ‘God’s will’.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </SPAN>To accept any and every event in life as God’s will, without questioning our faith, without questioning God, is possible ONLY as we maintain a continuous, close, loving relationship with our Lord.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </SPAN>We may ask WHY.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </SPAN>But then with that, we must listen for His answer.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </SPAN>He has His reasons for all He allows in our lives.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </SPAN>IF we are to be all He wants us to be, we must accept, we must believe that He has a purpose for what He allows in our lives.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </SPAN>We must never question His love.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </SPAN>The story of Job gives us a great insight into this matter.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </SPAN>Even as Job did not know what was behind his losses and suffering, so it may be with us.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </SPAN>But our faith in God <B>must</B> remain unshakeable.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </SPAN>Romans 8:28 and 29 tell us what God’s purpose is for us – to be “conformed to the image of His Son.”<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </SPAN>That is a process.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </SPAN>To look at an advanced math problem, such as in trigonometry, is a true mystery – <B>until</B> we have gone through the process of learning which leads to that understanding. God’s Word to us is a continuing revelation, a revealing of some things previously hidden until they fit into our ongoing development in Him.</P><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: EN-US">A major aspect of the ‘mystery’ of God is expressed in Hebrews 11:6, “…<U>without faith </U>it is impossible to please Him (God), for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that Her is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.”<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </SPAN>I believe there are some aspects of God and His Word that will remain a ‘mystery’.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </SPAN>How can a finite mind absorb that of the infinite?<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </SPAN>“As far as the heavens are above the earth, so are My ways above man’s ways and My thoughts above man’s thoughts.” Isaiah 55:9.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </SPAN>To me that is not a discouragement; it is a stimulus to keep “pressing on” to higher heights, to new horizons.</SPAN>G. Edward9/16/2005 2:59:00 PM http://ww.theoblogian.org/Post.aspx?s=rc&idpPost=26#Comment_50<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">Thanks for your comments all.</P> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">This is a bit of a recantation.</P> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">My error is the implication that were it not for God hiding truth, we would be able to ascertain truth. We underestimate the complexity of creation. We underestimate the complexity of “knowing.” We overestimate our ability to perceive and understand in proportion to all that is within our ability to know.</P> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">I was correct in saying that Scripture contains “hidden truth.” I would have been more accurate to say that Scripture <I>still</I> contains hidden truth. We are learning and growing in our understanding of Scripture. The truth that I was unable to perceive five years ago (hidden truth then), is now clear to me.</P><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA">Bottom line is: I tried to remove the onus of understanding Scripture away from Scripture and put it on us. I failed by drawing our attention to Scripture. Forgivable, no? We will never be able to unravel all of the meaning in any Scripture. My complaint is that our proclamations about the understandability of Scripture suggest that we can.</SPAN>Brian9/1/2005 8:06:00 PM http://ww.theoblogian.org/Post.aspx?s=rc&idpPost=26#Comment_48Perhaps it would help me if you gave a specific example of what you mean by "God hiding truth". I grant that there is a time-space-language-culture gap between us and the original audience, but I certainly do not think that gap qualifies as "God hiding truth". I do think that God made the Bible to be artistic, using chiasm and such, which takes work to uncover. But that I do not think this is "God hiding truth", but instead, God making his word beautiful. As for God making his point difficult to understand simply for the sake of making it difficult to understand, that I am not convinced he does. Any specific examples you want to give? <br> Abou the text, I like what Sam said. I think Ahaz is a good example of a blind man who would does understand. But not because God did not give him open truth: it was because Ahaz was already blind (and what a contrast with Hezekiah his son, who actively sought out Isaiah to pray for him!). <br> Charlie8/31/2005 4:39:00 AM http://ww.theoblogian.org/Post.aspx?s=rc&idpPost=26#Comment_44<P>if you guys don't mind me jumping in....</P> <P>i agree with at least the first half of the last paragraph of your comment here, Brian.</P> <P>i wanted to comment on Christ speaknig in parables, that is "hiding" truth.&nbsp; Jesus says that he is doing to so that hearing they won't hear and&nbsp;seeing they won't see.&nbsp; This is not new to him here...this is language borrowed from himself (as the Son)&nbsp;back in Isaiah&nbsp;6.&nbsp; Isaiah acknowledges his iniquity and the iniquity of his contemporaries.&nbsp; God then purifies him because of his humility and repentance, and sends him on a mission to Ahaz, the king of Judah.&nbsp; Isaiah wonders how long he has to go on this goodwill mission, and God says until the exile.&nbsp; However, the promise remains that there will be a remnant.&nbsp; It would be easy to say that God wants to hide truth from Ahaz and others, but a part of the rest of the story clarifies things...</P> <P>Isaiah shows up and tries to talk to Ahaz, but he doesn't want to hear it, and gives a pseudo-pious response to the offer of a sign from God.&nbsp; what i'm getting at is that Ahaz is already deaf and blind when God's messenger shows up.&nbsp; God doesn't have to hide anything from a blind person.&nbsp; More significant, in my mind, is that God does reach out to some of us.&nbsp; Having been born blind, we need divine healing to begin to see.</P> <P>I hope this contributes something...maybe we can understand Jesus' statement a bit better by running it through Isaiah.&nbsp; Jesus is standing amongst a vast sea of blindness...even his disciples have to ask what the parables mean.&nbsp; they don't even see.&nbsp; i think the point is that the Father sent the Son to open eyes, and Jesus is thankful that he did.</P> <P>let me have it.</P>sam8/30/2005 5:26:00 PM http://ww.theoblogian.org/Post.aspx?s=rc&idpPost=26#Comment_43<P>Thanks for&nbsp;inflating my comments.</P> <P>While the so-called-wise did not accept&nbsp;the truth in my first example, Jesus' statement still seems to be the most stark. God actively hid "these things" from the wise and actively revealed them to little children. This is biting irony, but those who were truly wise (like Simeon) recognized the Messiah coming in the form of a carpenter's son.</P> <P>In the third example, I am not sure that you can make the case that this is secular.&nbsp;The kings on hand here would be David and Solomon.</P> <P>My point is that God has made fundamental truths available to children, but he has also&nbsp;embedded truth&nbsp;that is worthy of -and even requires-&nbsp;the scholars finest attention. This "hidden" truth is no less true than the broader truth recognized by children. It does not contradict the broader truth though it may at times contradict <EM>our understanding</EM> of the broader truth. And herein lies the value of the scholar. The scholar can call us to a better understanding&nbsp;of the truth because he or she is <A HREF="/post_post_20.html">steeped in Scripture</A>. </P> <P>What do I mean when I say "hidden truth?" On one hand I mean hidden by my English translation -that the main point of the accounts of the Sermon on the Mount, the Tower of Babel, or even Creation may be missed if we ignore the structure of the passage, the language it was written in,&nbsp;or the customs of that time. On the other hand, I also mean that God has hidden the truth from the so-called-wise&nbsp;who want God to exist according to their rules.</P>Brian8/30/2005 12:04:00 AM http://ww.theoblogian.org/Post.aspx?s=rc&idpPost=26#Comment_38I'm just inflating the numbers of comments for Brian's sake. <br> <br> It seems to me that the question turns on "hidden". What is hidden? Geographical details? Author's intention? Truth about God and salvation? And hidden from whom? From the original reader (listener)? From the average American? <br> <br> It seems clear that we need scholars for the sake of modern Americans, for a translation at the very least, due to the language-time-space-culture gap. On the other hand, it also seems to me that the basic truth about God and salvation is very clear in the text, even if the details about those topics are sometimes muddy. <br> <br> But the way you state it is that God intended to hide truth even from the original audience. Perhaps this is true, depending on what "hide" means. Is it that there is a simple truth that is hidden or a complex truth that must be worked on to discover because it complex, not because it is hidden? I will say that I am not impressed with you proof texts. Maybe the second one I will grant you, but I'm still not sure on it. The first one has more to do with accepting than with intellectual understanding. The third seems more secular than spiritual. <br> <br> Charlie8/26/2005 7:13:00 PM http://ww.theoblogian.org/Post.aspx?s=rc&idpPost=26#Comment_37<br> Anonymous8/26/2005 6:57:00 PM http://ww.theoblogian.org/Post.aspx?s=rc&idpPost=26#Comment_36Well Charlie the non-techno whiz lost his comment for missing a button a somewhere. So here is about what I said. I agree mostly with what Brian said, so the discussion will not be that interesting. But first I want to make sure that I can save this comment. <br> Charlie8/26/2005 6:56:00 PM http://ww.theoblogian.org/Post.aspx?s=rc&idpPost=26#Comment_35Charlie8/26/2005 5:55:00 PM